The Protein Sparing Modified Fast with Maria Emmerich

Dr. Steven Noseworthy (00:02.734)
Hey everyone, welcome to the Funk Med Nation podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Steve Nosworthy. The views and opinions of guests on this podcast are their own and may differ from my own. But as always, I try to be respectful of other people's opinions, even when we might disagree.
I've got two different podcasts. I've got one that I started a couple of years ago, which is just for the general public. That one's called Inflammation Nation. and I have another one I started earlier this year for functional medicine doctors. And and I, you know, part of my career path is not just as a clinician, but touring around the country teaching functional medicine for an organization called Apex Energetics, gentleman by the name of DeTis Karazian. and what I'm hoping today, Maria. I'm hoping to get something for both audiences. I'm hoping to get something just for the layperson who may or may not know much about science. Although, you know, my experience over the last five to 10 years is that healthcare consumers are becoming much more educated. They know so much more than they did 15 years ago, 20 years ago. And I think that we have to change our conversation because of that. But I'm also hoping if you're comfortable and willing to dive into some of the science behind some of the topics that might come up today. And make it maybe make it a little bit more physiological and a little bit more clinical. And and so I think I'm probably gonna end up posting the episode on both podcasts. Well, yeah, well, it's my it's my honor. So one of the things that I like to do when I start out interviews with people is just kind of talk about the origin story. And and you know, I have my own story of how I got into health and wellness. And, you know, I've discovered that that most of us have

Maria Emmerich (01:34.401)
well I'm honored.

Dr. Steven Noseworthy (01:53.6)
a place that we used to be in the place where we are now on some things that got us from point A to point C. So I'm kind of interested for you because I know you do have a little bit of a backstory, but take as long as you want, two minutes, 20 minutes, just kind of spin that story for us if you don't mind.

Maria Emmerich (02:08.942)
this is kind of, you know, people love my story because it was quite intense. but I have been on a ketogenic diet for over 26 years. It'll be 27 years in March. because when I was a teenager, if you want to do the math, you can. 16 years old and I wasn't feeling well. I Went to my family doctor and they told me at that visit I had something called PCOS, which is what we know now as a form of type two diabetes. Sure. I also was given three prescription drugs at age of 16, one for antidepressant, one for acid reflex, and one for IBS, which is evil bowel syndrome. and I looked at these prescriptions and I'm like, I don't want to take these. Right. And as fate had it, I had this beautiful golden retriever, but she was losing patches of her hair. And so I took her to the vet that same week. And the first question the vet asked me was, What are you feeding her? I was like, Okay. I mean, my doctor told me it was nothing I was doing wrong. It was just the cards I was dealt in life. And little did they realize I worked at this coffee shop. So before school started, I would go to this coffee shop and I would make the scones and the muffins and the cinnamon rolls. And then I would go to school and then I would go back to the coffee shop once I was done with school. And whatever didn't sell, we would close about five o'clock. Whatever didn't sell, I got to go home with. You think I'm lying, but I would make extra cinnamon rolls that morning. Just in case. Like, especially on Fridays. I knew Fridays was like a big cinnamon roll day. So I'd like to make a lot. but I would go home with boxes. Like, do you know Seinfeld, like the muffin top thing? Like, I was just eating muffin tops and like.

Dr. Steven Noseworthy (03:47.038)
Just in case.

Maria Emmerich (04:02.144)
It was awesome. But given that diagnosis, I was like, wow, you know, there wasn't the internet back then. But doing some research into what causes PCOS, because being told you can't have your own children at 16 is kind of like mind-blowing. And looking into the PCOS, it's caused by excess caffeine, sugar, and carbohydrates. And so I had to really look at what I was putting in my mouth. And completely change it. But I never want to eat chicken breast and broccoli and I still don't. And so I just started like recreating some of my favorite things, like cinnamon rolls, into these, you know, low carb, exotic, protein-packed cinnamon rolls. And I just had fun creating really delicious food. And it was just for myself. And you know, everybody thought I would fail. And I think that just made me like want to do it harder because. What's interesting to me, and is I really want your listeners to take this home, is when you change your diet, when you try to cut out sugar and become a better person, people are triggered and they are going to try to make you fail. The closest people in your life, your mother is going to make you your favorite pie. And it's not because they don't love you. It's because they're afraid you're going to change. And little do they know you're going to change for the better. But having a little bit of stubbornness and, you know, like, I don't know. I never was the one to follow the crowd. So I didn't I kind of wanted to do the opposite all the time. So it worked for me. But I understand there are people that just want to go with the crowd and go the easy way and this and that. And people are triggered when you change and you just have to be very

Dr. Steven Noseworthy (05:43.2)
And and you know, and the and I'm certainly no psychotherapist, but it seems to me that people don't want to have the light shone, shown, shone, whatever that word is, on on the mistakes that they're making, right? Because then all of a sudden it's like, okay, now I'm aware this is an issue and maybe I'm responsible for you know taking ownership of my choices. And and I that could be a subconscious thing, or I'm sure some people think it consciously, but I I totally get it because I've, you know, I was very healthy up until a certain point in life. And then life got too busy and too complicated with marriage, five kids, busy clinic practice in Florida. And I just kind of lost control of things and and I didn't want to hear it. Like people would say, like, what happened to you? And like, you know, I didn't want to hear it because I didn't want to take ownership of of my lack of priorities and all that kind of stuff. So was was it that beginning of the journey, was that what led you to become a nutritionist? Because that's your primary background, right?

Maria Emmerich (06:40.364)
Yep. I went to school for nutrition and exercise physiology. And I met my husband, now husband, when I was only 17. and I told him that I probably can't have my own children. He's like, let's adopt. And that was something that I always wanted to do. And so we started adopting. I was married before I could legally drink alcohol. and he was much older than I was. So we we started adopting and he lost his job and It was such a hard time for us to like like set these children aside. And it was really sad. And someone said to me, Maria, why don't you because this was after school. When I when I graduated college, I became a rock climbing guide. And I made like $8 an hour because I was going to be a stay-at-home mom. That was my I was going to be a stay-at-home mom. That was what we're going to do. And so when he lost his job, I didn't have insurance. And if you lose job like assurance, health insurance and all that. your adoption goes back to zero. So all that money you put into it goes back to zero. So like depression totally was, you know, it was it was a hard time. And someone said, well, Maria, you know, you're going to start a blog. What is a blog? Right? This was a long time ago. This is 15 years ago. What is a blog? and they're gonna they said you're gonna write a cookbook to put your recipes in to help raise money for your adoption. I was like, that's cool. This is how poor we were okay. I had to ride my bicycle to the library, not even a car because we sold our cars. We had nothing. I rode my bicycle to the library to write my first book. And I am so grateful for that hardship because it gave me a reason to wake up. And now it gives me I live very simply. Like I don't need much. I don't even have a car. Like because I never liked being in a car. I like to ride my bicycle. And I just And now they have e-bikes. So I mean, come on. They're super. but it just taught me like, you don't really need a lot, you know. but I don't know. I love telling my kids that story. I'm gonna cry anyway.

Dr. Steven Noseworthy (08:52.76)
Sorry.

Maria Emmerich (08:53.602)
No, no, that's okay. This time of year is a lot because it this is when we were in Ethiopia we w we adopted them from Ethiopia. And so just the holidays are a lot and I'm just I'm just so grateful to be their mom, you know. And I'm grateful that

Dr. Steven Noseworthy (09:07.63)
Yeah. And and I like that part of the the story the best.

Maria Emmerich (09:14.368)
Yeah. And it's just it it couldn't happen without people like you, you know, spreading the word. It really couldn't have. It couldn't have. I just know that. So

Dr. Steven Noseworthy (09:23.682)
Yeah. Well, let's let's transition then. you know, that when I reached out to you, I I asked if you would be willing to come on and talk about the fasting mimicking diet. And I know that you don't use that terminology. And can we can we talk just a little bit about your take and your understanding of Walter Longo's work and his coining of that phrase? Because I'm pretty sure that you've taken that and you have adapted it, you've changed it. And You know, I think I understand the basics of of Dr. Longo's work and how he's structured his five. But just for people who are listening who may not have ever heard of the fasting memaking diet, can we just kind of paint that picture as best as we can? And then we'll move into your work and how you've modified things, why you've modified things, and and so we can kind of start with that and then branch out. So and and maybe a fair question, Maria, is like where and how and why did you get connected with the idea of a fasting mimicking diet.

Maria Emmerich (10:26.604)
It would be easier if I started there. Because I when my first nutritional book, not all my books are cookbooks, my first nutritional guidebook, I wrote a lot about my story. And that's actually the one that everybody loves the most. I and I talked about how when I started the ketogenic lifestyle, my depression went away, my acid reflex went away, like so much got better, but I didn't lose weight. I was eating way too much cheese, way too many nuts, all of that. I had to, and I just created this myself, pure protein days. And I wish I would have stuck with that term because it really was a pure protein day. There was no, it was very low in fat, no carbohydrates. It was just lean proteins. And when I would do that a few days a week, not every day, I did it a few days a week, the weight finally came off. And I set dairy aside for a while, and the weight finally came off. And so those were my pure protein days. And I had like recipes that were like pure protein bread, you know, like things like that. And someone's well, that's protein sparing. I was like, I don't I don't know what that is. Like, you know. And so they're like, well, technically you should call it this because that's what it is. And so I just kind of went with it. but so is it really his work that I'm trying to mimic? I'm not. I'm just trying to do my own thing. And that term kind of just got piled on it. I wish I would have stuck with the name pure protein days because people are very cons con like confused when they hear protein sparing. They're like, it seems like I'm sparingly eating protein. And I'm like, no, it's opposite. You're it's opposite. You're eating a lot of protein and it you're sparing it from your body. You're you're you're not going to use that muscle. You're going to lose fat. You're going to save the muscle.

Dr. Steven Noseworthy (12:06.582)
That's the opposite, yeah.
Yeah. So and and I and I appreciate all of that. And I and I think that the model that you've created is very much aligned with the place that I, you know, came to after years of trying to sort this stuff out, not just for myself, but for all the people that I work with over the years. And, you know, just just to put it out there as a reference point, n and I don't want to turn this conversation into your opinion of Dr. Longo's work. That's not my intent at all. But just for some For some reference, you know, Dr. Longo's work, he promotes this thing called a fasting mimicking diet. in his words, he says that going through, you know, one of his cycles mimics about a four-day water fast from a metabolic standpoint, like what changes. And so he has this five-on, two-off schedule during a week where you significantly drop calories and that changes depending on the day that you're in for five days, and then you go back to eating routinely. But You know, one of the things that strikes me about his approach is that it's very low calorie, which I don't necessarily have a problem with, you know, periodically. What I'm not personally a huge fan of is the very, very low protein approach he takes, which I appreciate your take on this. So very low calories, very low protein, even plant-based protein in general, like avoiding red meats and all that kind of stuff. A little bit of fish is allowed, that kind of stuff. and so in in his first body of work with the fasting mimicking diet, his whole point was you don't have to fast if that's trouble, troublesome or difficult for you. You can follow this protocol of five days of calorie and protein restriction, and then you can mimic the effects of a true water fast. Right. And he equates it to do one cycle of this protocol and you'll get the same results as doing. four day water fast. And if you repeat this cycle, say every month or every couple of months, then the the results accumulate over a period of time.

Maria Emmerich (14:21.87)
Why is he testing this?

Dr. Steven Noseworthy (14:24.034)
Yeah, a lot of this, and this is one of the big issues like I've got with all like, you know, everyone and their mothers talking about intermittent fasting and low calories promoting longevity. And I I think one of the things that people don't understand is majority of these studies are done on fruit flies and yeast species and some animals, mostly rodent studies. And very, yeah, very, very few studies in the intermittent fasting calorie restrictions and longevity space are done on humans. Right, especially free living humans that are not confined to, you know, like a lab setting where everything is controlled for them. And so I I totally agree. So let let's just kind of I just wanted to put out there that out there as a reference point because if anyone starts to do any research in Google based on our conversation today, they're probably going to come across Longo's work. But in and I don't want to pigeonhole you because you're not just a one-trick pony, right? You're not just into keto, right? You you have Lately been speaking at carnivore conferences. you have this protein-sparing modified fast, which is kind of a ketogenic style. And and so you you have a spectrum. And so one of the questions that I have for you, and we can go through your take on each one of these as much as you want. You know, when we look at something like a protein-sparing modified diet, which I'll have you explain what that means here in a second, and then we stack that next to. Ketogenic diets and we stack that next to carnivore diets. Do you see these as somewhat mutually exclusive options? It's either this or that, or do you tend to see them as I tend to do, as more stops along a spectrum that are really kind of all in the same domain? They're just different versions of.

Maria Emmerich (16:17.103)
you pause for a second just so you know.

Dr. Steven Noseworthy (16:19.318)
Okay, sorry about that. Where where did I lose you?

Maria Emmerich (16:21.574)
No, I understand what you're saying. Yeah, they're all they're all, I would say they're all a ketogenic diet. Carnivore is a ketogenic diet. Yes. It's just taking it to the next level. And my family is more carnivore than anything. I do not eat protein-sparing anymore because there's no need to. I don't like putting people on a protein-sparing diet that only have 10 pounds to lose because they're going to be miserably hungry. However, I work with people that are. Over 600 pounds. And Tyler, he was 650 pounds and he was so sick, he needed to lose the weight fast. He had a lot of energy on his body. He did not eat need to eat a lot of energy. And the reason I like protein sparing versus a water fast is because we know you're gonna lose muscle in a water fast. Right. and the whole idea of autophagy and you have to fast to get autophagy, you what's better for that? Exercise.

Dr. Steven Noseworthy (17:09.773)
Right.
I was just gonna say in fact my wife and I had that very conversation this morning.

Maria Emmerich (17:21.965)
That's why I'm asking you, how is he testing the benefits of fasting? Because anyway, Tyler lost 100 pounds in two months. The best way to reverse like type 2 diabetes or insulin resistance is to shrink your fat cells and to gain or at least maintain your muscle. And at that size, he was not at the point of exercising, but even just like getting up and down from a chair, he's doing a squat with you know six. Pounds. It's a lot. but you know, I also work with people with epilepsy and seizures or Alzheimer's. I'm gonna go to a ketogenic diet because higher ketones are gonna keep those seizures away. However, I've had some people with seizures do better on protein sparing. I'm not sure exactly why, but it's shown that higher ketones will help keep the seizures away. However, higher ketones have never shown to have faster weight loss ever. So if you think that you need to add fat to your diet in order to get higher ketones or take exogenous ketones in order to lose weight, no, you just have more energy in your body. Because if I I've been, you know, keto for a long time. My ketones are very low. The longer you are keto, the more efficient your mitochondria are. So that's going to be lower. And I always work out in a fasted state in the morning, whether it be weightlifting, running, whatever. And so I'm using my ketones for energy. So when I finally test, they're really low, but I just used them all. It's not a bad thing, but people get really hung up on this keto number. I just want to throw that out there. But then there's people like my husband, who's he ended up with Lyme disease a long time. We could have a whole podcast with him, dude. Like he is a science guru. but he ended up with Lyme disease, which is not his fault. A lot of people like, just eat carnivore, it'll go away. Carnivore's great, but it's not a miracle. Let's just I want that out there. manages his pain, but he never got rid of the Lyme. He went to many Lyme doctors. He's done every protocol, but it was always there. And he, you know, very frustrating. But he ended up with an autoimmune called ankylosing spondylitis, where his joints basically calcify and he's like stoneman. and he eats the carnivore diet. If he has plants, his pain level goes through the roof. And learning about all the plants, because I I remember I remember hearing like kale was bad for you. I'm like, what? You know, like, come on. But learning about oxalates and all this stuff, you cannot deny the science. It is fascinating that, you know, if I put a steak in front of you or a plate of kale, people think that the kale is healthier, like that doctor you were just talking about, thinking that the steak is bad for you. No, no, no. There's a hundred times more nutrients in that steak than the kale will ever have, and it doesn't have Anutrients. And that's why I like the whole plant protein. It's frustrating because people will think that that's better, especially, you know, like you know, in California, everybody wants to be vegan, vegetarian, whatever. So they'll do like pea protein. And I'm like, do you understand that even though your package of pea protein says there's 20 grams of protein per scoop, the bioavailability of that is really maybe 10 or less. You might get 10 grams of protein per scoop. So you're gonna have to eat double the amount just to get that much protein in. And so it it's frustrating because the vegan community seems to keep growing. But I love that you're out there it's just like preaching the truth.

Dr. Steven Noseworthy (20:55.158)
Yeah, and and I, you know, I know this is gonna upset some people, but I'm I'm at the point now where I won't take vegans who won't consider changing their diet, I won't take them on as personal coaching clients. Right. Because they're they they're unfortunately too difficult to help. Now, I totally respect if somebody chooses to be a vegan because of deeply held philosophy or perhaps religious views. I'm not gonna try to mess with that. You can't. But no, and and if so if somebody you know, applies to become one of my clients. I I actually have a question in my intake questionnaire. It says, you know, are you a vegan? And if you are, are you willing to consider at least starting to incorporate some animal products? And if the answer is no, then we're done. Yeah. We're done at that point. And and again, I I know it's going to upset some people to say that. And and I know that you know there's more recent research, Stu Phillips up in Canada. In particular, he's a big strength and muscle physiology guy. He's he's been studying, you know, can you build muscle on a on a plant protein diet? Of course, you know, of course you can, but most of these are supplemented with soy soy protein. You know, and that that in and of itself might have some individual health concerns. Like we I have a feeling you can I you and I could go down multiple bunny trails.

Maria Emmerich (22:09.78)
I love you. You go on forever.

Dr. Steven Noseworthy (22:11.822)
So let's try to constrain things. So let's let's go back and let me try to capture one thought and then I would like you to explain what the protein sparing diet is. do you would you do you look at both carnivore and a protein-sparing diet as subsets of keto or special versions of that?

Maria Emmerich (22:33.506)
Yes, yeah, subset. That's what exactly what my husband says too. And it just depends on this is why, you know, when you work with someone, you say, what are your goals? Because what their goals are is going to drive me what the diet is going to be. You know, I think carnivore is the ultimate autoimmune protocol. I really believe that a dairy free car because I think you could do way, you know, I have a carnivore protocol that's like level one is just beef and salt. Like that's it. But you can get up to the carnivore level where you're adding butter to the steak and drinking heavy cream and all of that where you know, what it is what it is. But I I do think that meat is healing for sure.

Dr. Steven Noseworthy (23:13.058)
Yeah, we have I think January is World Carnivore Month. which actually I've I've spoken out loud that I'm gonna do carnivore for January and so

Maria Emmerich (23:22.654)
I will send you my carnivore books. Like use give me your address.

Dr. Steven Noseworthy (23:25.634)
Yeah, sure. I'd love, I'd love, I would love that. I would appreciate it. So all right, let's talk about what the protein spearing modified or fasting rule. How do you how do you see it? It's the protein spearing modified fast. Yeah. Modified fast. Yeah. and is it truly a fast?

Maria Emmerich (23:43.362)
Well, it to me, it's instead of water fasting. Okay. Because, you know, with water fasting, you know, look at the studies, you will lose muscle mass. And to the point where if you do extended fasting, it takes about ten days to get that leucine to be able to absorb properly again. So you can build muscle. Like it's it's really fascinating. I can show you that study that we just found.

Dr. Steven Noseworthy (24:12.98)
And let's just pause there and and let's let's talk about the leucine trigger because I let's not assume that people know the importance of of leucine for muscle protein synthesis. So why don't you describe the role of that as succinctly as you can?

Maria Emmerich (24:26.296)
So leucine is an amino acid, and amino acids come from protein. but leucine is a very important amino acid that comes from your diet, and you need to get 2.5 grams at a meal in order to trigger protein synthesis to build muscle. most people don't get that much, especially for breakfast if they're eating cereal. But that's really important, especially that first meal of the day and the last meal of the day is to trigger that. but I I forgot what I was saying.

Dr. Steven Noseworthy (25:03.17)
Well t just describing what the leucine trigger is.

Maria Emmerich (25:06.284)
Yeah, and you just want to make sure that you get at least, you know, depending on your size, but average like 2.5 grams of leucine, in order to trigger muscle protein synthesis. And when you're not when you're not eating anything, you're certainly not eating leucine. And that's going to, you know, cause some muscle loss. And then once you do start eating, it's gonna take a few days for your body to be like, okay, now we can trigger it. but yeah, it's a really interesting study. They're cutting like Palm trees down right now. It's just like right here in the window.

Dr. Steven Noseworthy (25:39.138)
That's okay. We can't we can't hear it in the background. Okay. so let's translate that, Maria, into something practical. Because then you know, we were just talking about plant-based protein versus you know animal-based protein. Leucine is relatively low in comparison in plant-based foods compared to animal based products. Right. And I think this is one of the challenges that people who opt for a plant-based approach they come up against. Not only is it just the You know, the digestibility of plant-based proteins, the bioavailability, it's the relative lack of leucine. And so I I completely agree that if someone is going to start counting the protein they get from plants, you know, you need that much more compared to eating animal products. And so my understanding of the numbers, and this to simple math, is that on average, if you're trying to get about two and a half to three grams of leucine. per feeding or per meal, that translates roughly into 30 to 40 grams of animal protein. And you'd have to go maybe to 50 grams of plant-based protein to get the same thing, assuming that you're combining your proteins to get a favorable amino acid profile. Yep. and so that's, I mean, that's kind of some of the science between why many of us do prefer animal-based diets from the protein source. okay, so so what's the big deal? And I'm just trying to let the conversation flow based on you know what we're talking about. Like so it's all about protein sparing. I mean, why is that why is that the is that the pinnacle of the that that whole dietary approach? Is that the point is to keep your muscle? is it does that necessarily mean that it's not about controlling things like inflammation or insulin or creating hormone balance? Like what's if you were to construct a hierarchy, what is the most favorable metabolic change that happens if somebody follows a protein sparing modified fast?

Maria Emmerich (27:44.3)
You will lose fat without losing muscle. And that alone is going to reverse insulin resistance, which that is the cause of so many illnesses of people that you see. And here's the thing like obesity is a real problem. Like we're in the minority now. If you look at the numbers, most people are in the obese category. It's really sad. And we're making that the norm. You know, it's just it's it's frustrating. So what you have sick clients and they just want to get better. And a lot of times they need to see results in order to keep going. Otherwise, they quit. Even if they feel better, like I did in the beginning, I wasn't gonna quit, but I see that all the time. Like, yeah, sure, my sleep's better, my skin's better, you know, like, but I didn't see the scale go down. And so they quit. And this is very frustrating. And this is what's really frustrating about like Ozempic and all that. I know you're probably dealing with that, is that When the average person loses weight just by themselves, doing a calorie deficit, eating a special K, whatever, they're going to lose probably 30% of muscle. Most of it is going to be fat, but it's going to be about 30% muscle. When they do ozempic or trzepatide, whatever you want to try, it's about 50%.

Dr. Steven Noseworthy (29:05.452)
Yeah, it's like it it's like ridiculous.

Maria Emmerich (29:07.744)
If you do a protein-sparing modified fast, it's as low as you're gonna get, it's about 3%. And what's really frustrating is eventually they're gonna get off those drugs, right? Hopefully, it's a thousand dollars a month. And when they get off of it, their body camp position is worse because they just lost all that muscle. Their type two diabetes is not better, their insulin resistance is not better, you know, they're weaker. And here's the thing too. about the whole longevity, like is you know, is me is protein aging me? No, like mTOR and all that is aging, whatever. I don't care. I wanna be eighty and running every day rather than a hundred and twenty and in a wheelchair.

Dr. Steven Noseworthy (29:51.586)
Yeah. Yeah. And it's funny you say that because the in on my podcast I tend to do mini series. Like I'll take a topic and I might do five episodes or not of them, some of them have gone 12 to 15. And lately I've been talking about longevity. And you know, I made the point the other day is like don't don't ever let anyone tell you or convince you that eating animal protein, particularly red meat, is gonna give you cancer. via any mechanism, particularly by driving mTOR. Right. And and this is, you know, this is a I think a huge problem in the health and wellness space is that people latch on to one part of very complex biological mechanisms, all of which have interconnected and interdependent subsystems. And they just pluck one thing out and say, okay, this is what it is, this is what it does. And how do I control that and change it? And And I'm I'm a huge advocate of having a systems-based view of human metabolism. And that's, you know, what we try to practice, what we try to teach in in the seminars. but I, you know, I'm I'm kind of with you, like this whole semaglotide stuff. I I like I I have people and sometimes it's friends and family, like, hey, have you heard of this? Here's an article. What do you think? And I'm like, I wouldn't put my wife or my myself or any of my kids on these things. I just wouldn't do it. The trade-off isn't worth it in my mind because you're trading radical body composition changes and unfavorable ones for long-term health and wellness.

Maria Emmerich (31:25.462)
Right. And we don't know the long-term health. You know that thyroid cancer increases by like 50%. It's it's huge. It's just it's something that I don't think we know the true long-term risks yet. But we live in a society that wants, you know, a change right now. They don't want to wait for it or work for it.

Dr. Steven Noseworthy (31:27.616)
No, we don't.
Yeah. all right. So we we've been talking in and around it and we kind of get close and then veer away into another topic. So what is the protein sparing modified fast? How do you do it? General guidelines, because I'm sure it has to be tailored for individuals.

Maria Emmerich (32:01.11)
Right. And it's not, this is my way of doing the protein sparing modified fast day that I've found to be the best over the 20 years of working with people. I know that there's a few other people that do it much differently, but this is the way I like to do it. maximum of three days a week, you can do have a protein-sparing modified fast day. And I do have a free calculator if you don't mind me plugging this. It's on my website.

Dr. Steven Noseworthy (32:27.896)
No, I'll put links to all of your websites and you know, anything you want, just make sure that I have the proper links and I'll put on the episode description.

Maria Emmerich (32:35.138)
Well, that this I have a free calculator. And this calculator will give you your keto macros for weight loss. And then it'll also give you your protein sparing macros for weight loss. If that's your goal, other you know, like you can do it for muscle building, whatever you want, but 99% of people want to lose weight. And so it'll give you your keto macro days and then your protein sparing mac days. Protein sparing is a low calorie diet. It's about 800 calories a day. This is why I don't say do it every day because There will be some metabolic adaptation. depending on how large a person is, I'll give them how many days they can do it. Three days is maximum. and I don't, like I said, I don't recommend it for someone who's just trying to lose 10, 15 pounds because they don't have a lot of energy on their body. They're going be really hungry. But when they have a lot of energy, they're like, I feel great on protein sparing days. Can I do it all the time? my definition is it's dairy free if you do it my way. Dairy-free and nut free. So that means no fat-free cheese, no fat-free cottage cheese or low-fat, any of that. because I know some people do that, or whey protein. So and I usually don't recommend whey for weight loss just because it triggers, it is absorbed so quickly into the body. It's fine for a bodybuild or something like that, but someone who is insulin resistant, I don't want to do that. and then

Dr. Steven Noseworthy (33:59.288)
Can you pause there for a second, Maria, and explain the link between whey and insulin resistance?

Maria Emmerich (34:05.804)
Well, all proteins have a different rate of absorption. This is also why soy is bad, you know, it's doesn't signal as fast. So whey protein is or is absorbed very quickly into the bloodstream. Often see your blood sugar go up with it because it's absorbed so fast. I like like beef protein. I have a beef protein powder that I really like and enjoy myself. It's absorbed. slower and more evenly. And then there's some that like take forever to trigger. You know, like egg is somewhere in between there. It's more on the longer end, you know, like egg protein. And then you get the pea protein and soy protein way down the line. So it's not great if it happens too fast or too slow. It's fine if it's for someone that's not looking for weight loss or whatever. But also the dairy aspect you know whey is dairy and we Poo-poo gluten in this keto community, but nobody talks about the dairy issue. And dairy is a much more common allergen than gluten is. But I think that people are already giving up, you know, the bread and the rice, and they they don't want to give up the dairy also. so and we, you know, we can talk about that later, but that's why I choose like meat is like a really great rate of absorption. Dairy free, no nut flowers, no coconut flour, anything like that.

Dr. Steven Noseworthy (35:39.086)
You're you're hitting you're hitting like all the high points and all the all the mistakes people make. Like people go gluten free and all of a sudden they they become a gluten free baking expert and they're using all these different like almond flour, coconut flour, whatever. And those are not necessarily good choices for people.

Maria Emmerich (35:57.794)
Yeah. The thing about nuts is it's a lot of fat and a lot of carbohydrates. And if you think about like animals that fatten up for the winter, they eat nuts. The that are a lot of fat and carbs are a great way to gain weight. And that's what nuts, nut flowers are. So that's why I usually don't recommend those. I still have desserts. I mean, like it's they're just different. Like, You know, I even have like an angel food cake that's pretty mind blowing. but and we made a flowerless red velvet cake yesterday. It's really good. So it's not like you you're s you're eating bark. It's good stuff.

Dr. Steven Noseworthy (36:38.862)
Yeah, and I think I think sometimes people think that, you know, if if they make radical changes to their diet, which, you know, certainly from a standard American diet, this is a radical change. I think people who are used to living in that domain with their diet, it's not so radical. But the departure from a standard American diet is, you know, for some people intimidating and a little bit scary, which is why I appreciate the fact that you've put together the cookbooks, because that's a tool they can use to bridge that gap.

Maria Emmerich (37:06.922)
And my recipes have gotten easier over the years. I but I understand not a lot of people like to cook. That's why you get a slow cooker instapot because it does it for you, you know? Yeah. but so back to the protein sparing. And then you want to get enough protein about, you know, point one times your lean mass. And that's

Dr. Steven Noseworthy (37:26.392)
Point one or or one?

Maria Emmerich (37:29.605)
what's that?

Dr. Steven Noseworthy (37:30.584)
Point one or one gram per pound of lean mass.

Maria Emmerich (37:33.998)
Point one ti one one one. Sorry.

Dr. Steven Noseworthy (37:37.032)
Okay. That's what I thought.

Maria Emmerich (37:39.412)
sorry if I said 0.1. And then you know, your keto days would be more like 0.8. That's where I got mixed up there. so you know, it's more important to get higher protein on your protein sparing days because you're not eating the fat or carbs, and that's gonna keep you very satiated and not hungry. But here's the thing: protein is awesome for building your body, building hair. And that's the thing too. Like women come to me, they're like, I tried the keto diet and I lost my hair and my thyroid suffered. I'm like, Yeah, because you didn't eat any protein. Well, protein is so important for like skin turnover and your hair and your nails and your thyroid, all of this stuff. So yeah, 800 calories. you know, like on average, for like, you know, 120-pound woman, like 100 grams of protein. you know, just put to put it simply, and then maximum 30 grams of fat, 20 is better. That's a plenty for absorbing fat mineral mineral vitamins and getting your gallbladder to work. and then carbs as close to zero as possible, but it's hard because even scallops have carbs, liver has carbs, you know, it's hidden, you know, there's something nothing to worry about. Don't count them, it's fine. You know, if it comes from an animal, I'm not too worried about it.

Dr. Steven Noseworthy (38:51.96)
You have that trace amount scattered.

Maria Emmerich (39:00.084)
but then you know, so it's that that's three days a week. And then the other ones will be your keto days. And then I do an overfeeding day. And this overfeeding day is not a pizza hut day, but it is you can have, you know, ribeyes or ribs, or you don't really count calories that day. You just kind of like go with it. But as long as it's dairy free protein forward, but it could be those higher fat proteins like chicken wings or ribs, ribeyes. But That's the thing. Like a lot of carnivores, that's all they eat are ribs or chicken wings. And some people are like, but this person is really skinny and they eat ribeyes all the time. This is like, yes, if I eat a lot of fat now, but I didn't to get here.

Dr. Steven Noseworthy (39:41.55)
Sure. Yeah. And so can can we pause on that thought? Because you know, if you look at like if so if you were to write down the instructions for the protein sparing approach and compare that to keto, especially the way a lot of people do keto, one of the biggest differences is in the amount of fat that you're recommending compared to the standard keto approach. And and I I'm trying to put myself in your head and that might be the the wrong thing to do, but Are you doing that simply because the whole point is you're trying to tap into your your adipocyte reserves, right? Because most people have, you know, even a lean person has enough fat to provide what 60, 70,000 calories. And so if you're eating dietary fat and if you were eating lots of protein, but at the same time eating tons of fat. You're going to preferentially use your dietary fat and your body fat is just going to sit there. So is that the main reason for dropping the fat down?

Maria Emmerich (40:42.818)
Yeah, your body's really smart. It's much easier. And there's only, you know, one place really, two places for the fat to go, that dietary fat. Most of it's going to go to storage. People think that it just flies right through you on a ketogenic diet. No, you'd be on the toilet all day. Yeah. Remember those wow chips?

Dr. Steven Noseworthy (40:59.522)
Yeah. Olestra.

Maria Emmerich (41:01.27)
Yeah, the average person, if you test our stool, we only lose like eight percent of the our fat through our stool. Any more than that? Anymore. You go up a little bit with like those electrrips, you're gonna have diarrhea. You do not want more than that to go through your body. So this is like, so then where does it go? Mainly it's gonna go to your fat cells. And this is the whole fat flux. but what was I gonna say? so for I hate it when people are like, so what do you eat? I'm gonna I wanna look like you, I want to eat like you. It's like, well, to get here, I ate differently. Now I eat a lot of fat because I'm I exercise every day. I love it, you know, and when you protein is wonderful for, like I said, the hair, skin, nails, every build it's a building blocks. It's like the Legos of your body, right? Right. But it's not a good energy source. It's not a good energy source. Carbs are great energy, fat's great energy. Fat's a better energy, I should say. Carbs are okay energy. but protein is not. So once you get down to a lean body and you're not eating enough dietary fat or carbs, your energy is going to be really bad. And, you know, it's not, it's not a good situation to be in. So that's why I don't like it for people who are already pretty lean to do that.

Dr. Steven Noseworthy (42:19.832)
Right. Right. So that that's the distinction between your approach to fat. Do you do you put restrictions on the types of fats to consume or to avoid? Because I mean there's this this big controversy now out there between the seed oil advocates and the anti seed oil advocates, for example, right? And there's other obviously other types of fats.

Maria Emmerich (42:43.52)
I'm not a fan of seed oils. I do think that they are inflammatory. you know, hydrogenated being the worst, soybean, cottonseed, canola, like I just they're not flavorful. They're not good. Like use duck fat, lard, tallow. Cause I do send away like for protein sparing. If you're on like a program with me, we're gonna stay away from the butt butter and the ghee for now. yeah.

Dr. Steven Noseworthy (43:11.182)
Because of the dairy.

Maria Emmerich (43:13.494)
And usually that's the first thing they can add in if they don't have autoimmune issue. but they often find like I there's nothing better than a tenderloin cooked in tallow. Like it's just it has a very high smoke point, so it can get real crispy on outside. And it's flavorful. And you know, the duck fat and the coconut oil if you want. I'm not afraid of that. you could use avocado oil. I don't really use it. I think it I don't like the flavor. but you know, there's a lot of other dairy-free fats you can use.

Dr. Steven Noseworthy (43:42.466)
Yeah. So do you do you limit fat intake to that which is found naturally in the protein sources you're choosing, or do you have people add extra fat, whether that's olive oil or something? just to to meet their fat requirements, which I know are lower than what most people would expect on a keto diet.

Maria Emmerich (44:02.146)
You do not need to add, sorry. You do not need to add any fat. You're gonna have to probably use more egg whites than yolks because you're gonna get you're gonna get enough fat in there. Like people don't understand fat is in lean proteins also. Like I remember when I was young and you know, trying to lose weight, and my mom would get chicken breasts from Sam's Club. And I was looking at the package, I was like, why is there fat in the chicken breasts? You know, and I'm not afraid of fat now. I just want that to be clear. And I'm not saying, you know, this is why I do have a lot of options because the way you're gonna have success is the diet you can stick to. And that's also why I have like oodles of recipes, including a Pop Tart, because I feel like you know, if you want it bad enough, you gotta make it, but you can have it, you know. but it's the diet you can stick to. That's what's most important. But it is very effective. When someone really wants to see results and like do X, Y, and Z and you'll do great.

Dr. Steven Noseworthy (45:04.802)
Yeah. So we we've mentioned protein a couple of times and you've given some protein levels that you recommend. What's the rationale behind cycling the amount of protein on your keto days versus your protein sparing days?

Maria Emmerich (45:20.03)
it's just because on your keto days that they have you have more fat. And it's not that you have to add butter to steak. You but you can have like, you know, a steak that has more fat than like a tenderloin. A tenderloin is definitely a protein sparing day. And sometimes people have a hard time hitting their protein goal for a regular keto or protein sparing day. And I'm like, just pick one of my protein sparing recipes, put it into your meal planner, and you'll hit your protein goal for sure. The other meal you don't have to worry about so much. But it's just that. You know, your calories are much higher quite a bit on a keto day. They're much lower on a protein sparing day. And the volume of food you can eat in protein is infinite amounts than like if you have us, you know, a pat of butter versus a piece of you know, fish, like the volume is much bigger. so like it's just you can have a lot more. You can get away with more protein on a protein sparing day 'cause the calories are so low.

Dr. Steven Noseworthy (46:21.666)
Yeah. Yeah. And you almost yeah, no, I totally get that. what's the lowest? And I know that you base your calculations on lean body mass, which I like that approach. and so I have two questions. Number one is what is the lowest in terms of absolute grams that you would have someone take in, even if they're just a very small, frail person? And the s of protein. And then the second question is, would you modify your protein recommendations? Let's say you have two different people coming to see you and and one is a hundred pounds overweight. So you you clearly don't want to base your macronutrient prescription on their current body mass, right? You want to do it on, you know, you kind of feed the body you want, not the body that you have in circumstances. Yeah, base it on their lean mass. And so would you would you give a different number for someone who wasn't a hundred pounds overweight? Let's say they had that only 10 pounds to lose, but their primary goal In looking at a dietary approach like this is not weight loss per se, maybe some composition changes, but predominantly say they have Hashimoto's and they're they're trying to do that to control their autoimmunity. Would you do you keep those protein recommendations the same?

Maria Emmerich (47:43.342)
I would modify it for just about everybody. If somebody has cancer, certainly not going to go that high in protein. I would say don't do any collagen. you know, like there's definitely different situations in life where the protein requirement will change. for Hashimoto's dairy, gluten, it's more about what they're putting in their body and you know, getting enough protein. So maybe even a little bit more, especially if they want to change their body composition. Somebody with osteoporosis, I'm gonna go way high in protein because your bones are mineralized protein. I have an interesting story. I was running the beach the other morning, and I usually run before the sun comes up, before I start work. And so it's it's still kind of dark out. And a woman's like, Maria Emberick. And I was jeez, I looked like a drunk. I was like sweaty, you know, wet. and I was like, Yes. And she's like, my gosh, I'm so excited. You changed my life. And she was so sweet. And she said, I needed to find health. And so I started extended fasting. And a year later I was diagnosed with osteoporosis, not osteopenia, but osteoporosis, which is like, you know, the next level.

Dr. Steven Noseworthy (48:55.106)
Yeah, it's it's here, not it's coming.

Maria Emmerich (48:57.566)
Right. and she said, so I changed and I did your protein sparing method because she looks super fit. You know, I was like, I can't imagine you overweight at all. She's like, I was. Said, when I changed to protein sparing, now I no longer have osteopenia or osteoporosis. My bones are great. And but that's the thing, like we s think this fasting is this great diet. And I think that there's a place for like cancer, maybe if I had that, I would do it. But the majority of us. They we need it.

Dr. Steven Noseworthy (49:27.948)
Yeah. And so I in terms of difficulty in terms of execution, I'm I I think I heard you say a maximum of three days per week. Is that on a week to week basis? And if so, for how long?

Maria Emmerich (49:40.654)
Depends on how much you need have to lose.

Dr. Steven Noseworthy (49:42.84)
So just until you reach your goals.

Maria Emmerich (49:44.706)
Yeah, week to week basics big until you reach your goal. or you know, if you want to take a break from it. and I would say, like, if you are gonna take a break from something, I would take a break from doing protein sparing days, but don't add the dairy in. There's this dude on Twitter and he's like, sorry if I say this, but damn you, Maria, you are right. I finally cut out all of the dairy and The scale is finally going down. And that's all he changed is macros were the same, calories were the same, but he cut the dairy out and the weight started coming up.

Dr. Steven Noseworthy (50:21.9)
What did he replace the dairy with to be isocaloric?

Maria Emmerich (50:25.378)
you know, fattier cuts of meat and lard, tallow duck fat, something like that. but you know, when people are like drinking bulletproof coffees with butter and cream and this and that, and they tell me that I I fast until one o'clock, but they had that. I was like, you just had 500 calories of beer fat. That is not fasting. It's not. I would much rather have you have a steak and eggs for the same amount of calories than drinking. Than drinking your calories.

Dr. Steven Noseworthy (50:56.812)
Yeah. And then, you know, speaking to just the general public, you know, I I I would like to point out to people that you know, the human body is designed as it basically it's an input-output organism, right? And your diet and what you choose to put into your body is a set of signals that that asks or requires a certain response from the body. Right. And and this is you know, one thing I've been thinking about this a lot lately, because in the in the functional medicine space and I And I've been teaching functional medicine seminars for, you know, about 15 years now. When new doctors get into the functional medicine world as practitioners, they want to learn about techniques and strategies to figure out what supplements to give people. It becomes a very supplement-centric approach. And so the average person who might go to see a functional medicine practitioner, it's very likely that they're going to. get a whole list of supplement recommendations with little to no guidance on things like dietary change or lifestyle modification, particularly exercise. And I want to come back to the exercise piece and get your take on that in combination with protein sparing. And so, you know, why I guess one of the one of the messages I would like healthcare consumers and functional medicine clinicians to get is listen, diet and lifestyle are, to me, those are far more powerful Than nutritional supplements. That's not to mean that supplements aren't necessary or desirable in certain cases. But if all you're doing is taking the latest supplement or even something that's crafted for you individually, but you're not changing your diet, you're not optimizing your lifestyle, particularly exercise piece, you're you've got your pyramid upside down.

Maria Emmerich (52:42.339)
I I I I love supplements, but I tell them if you don't do this food plan, don't waste your money on those supplements because they're gonna do nothing for you.

Dr. Steven Noseworthy (52:51.394)
Yeah, it's almost like we've forgotten what the word supplement actually means. It means in addition to, right? I mean

Maria Emmerich (52:57.452)
Some of them are gonna help you to sleep better or whatever, which will help you eat better. But if you're not gonna do the diet, do not waste your money on these. Like this is first for sure. And you only need to do this. This is like, you know, obviously, I deal with a lot of, you know, post-menopausal women that are really low in progesterone and estrogen, and food's not going to heal that. Which I really don't like when some carnivore experts say carnivore heals everything. I'm like, we get older, like. We're gonna get wrinkles. We're going to get like that's not, you know, like people are very hard on my husband with his autoimmune issue. And he's like, I did not cause this. Stop. Like, I cannot get rid of it at this point. I can, you know, manage the issue and it's not progressing, but like people think.

Dr. Steven Noseworthy (53:47.06)
remission remission and cure are not the same thing. So yeah, and that's that's something that we we have to trumpet all the time with you know just with people is because they they expect cure. And that's you know no one no one knows how to do that yet. Hopefully at some point we'll be able to do that. But so so back to the exercise thing because I know that you're very physically active. I know you you love the outdoors I love that picture that you posted social media

Maria Emmerich (53:49.932)
Right.

Dr. Steven Noseworthy (54:15.073)
maybe a couple of months ago you were talking about I think you're talking about hunting.

Maria Emmerich (54:20.142)
I'm not borrowing.

Dr. Steven Noseworthy (54:20.846)
You're a bow hunter. we I'm I'm Canadian born and raised. I actually got my got my US citizenship this year. So I'm a dual citizen. But yeah, thank you. And we spend every summer back in my home, which is Newfoundland, Canada. It's the East Coast. And every September I go moose hunting with my dad and my brother in law and usually one of my nephews. And so, but I've never ventured into the bow hunting aspect of it. It was just never part of my my upbringing. so I so I appreciate the fact that you're, you know, you're not just like all you have to do is fix your diet. I mean, lifestyle is an important part of that as well. And diet can do a lot. It can't do everything, just like exercise can do a dot, but it can't do everything. So how do you how do you approach or do you even do that, or do you leave that to other people? Because I know you have a background in exercise physiology. So how do you approach a thing? Like, do you have certain people say? Okay, your capacity is so low, we're not doing anything but maybe walking up until a certain point. Or do you have an approach that you like people to use and you just like keep just stick with it until it kicks in and you're okay?

Maria Emmerich (55:31.724)
Well, first of all, I want to say moose is the best meat I've ever eaten. Like it they eat aquatic, so it's like super delicious. And it is I was on a carnivore TV show and I helped these participants with their lifestyle and they invited me to hunt in Newfoundland to hunt moose. And I was like, I didn't go yet. And I told my dad, I don't gun hunt. And I told my dad, would you bow because he has hunted moose and he's like, I wouldn't bow hunt moose.

Dr. Steven Noseworthy (55:47.768)
Where did you go?
I it's very because they're very skittish and usually when we when we get an animal it's usually two hundred yards plus. I mean it's not like you can't do that with a bow, but

Maria Emmerich (56:09.962)
They have them in their yard. Like they're always texting me pictures of the moose that he grows alfalfa. And it's really hard for I guess I don't know. Deer love alfalfa, they just have a lot of animals. Anyway, here's the thing about exercise. do you remember having to run the mile in the school? My mom remembers. I tried to break my leg, so I didn't have to do that.

Dr. Steven Noseworthy (56:32.814)
gosh.

Maria Emmerich (56:34.456)
That's how much I hated running. And now it's like where my best ideas come from and all that. Do I make my clients run? Absolutely not. And finding these amazing studies of people that just, if they don't want to exercise, just stretching alone will help maintain. their muscle so they don't lose that as they're losing weight. So if they don't want to go the protein sparing map route, just stretching will help them to keep that muscle while they lose fat. So it doesn't have to be going to the gym. I hate the gym. I lift weights here because I get to watch whatever I watch. I don't have time to watch TV. So I watch a trashy show and I just some lift some weights and laugh and it's enjoyable, right? you have to make it fun. You can't do stuff you hate. If it's dancing, dance. I'm a terrible dancer. I love to paddleboard. Like it's just and and moving after meals is also very important for blood sugar. And it doesn't, if you're like, it's winter, vacuum the house or you know, clean the kitchen or even making a meal. Here's the thing: like people, they don't want to cook and they don't want to clean, but if it's and but they'll go to the gym after work and run on a treadmill, which sounds like hell to me. If they would just walk around the grocery store, get the groceries, turn some music on while they cook dinner and just move their body, that's you're gonna burn pretty much the same calories, you know.

Dr. Steven Noseworthy (58:09.966)
So is is a starting point for you, especially with people who are more metabolically deranged, is a starting point for you to make sure that their their neat, their non-exercise activity thermogenesis is where it needs to be before you start adding exercise? Is that an approach that you would that you either do or you would think is a good idea?

Maria Emmerich (58:31.864)
Well, I do want to say like I have situations where they can't exercise. They like they they're my husband can't move his body. It's just the way it is. Like it's, you know, so I I I work with them that way. And I'll probably say before exercise, I address sleep. I think that sleep is more important than that. And I do tell people, if you are waking up an hour earlier and getting an hour less of sleep to work out, don't do that. I think sleep is more important because if you look at even if you eat the same foods, but you slept four hours four hours versus eight, your blood sugars are going to be much better on the days that you ate or slept eight hours. Even if you eat the same thing.

Dr. Steven Noseworthy (59:16.864)
Yeah, and we we have many studies that show just a a single night of sleep deprivation leads to increased insulin resistance for a period of like I wanna say eighteen hours, which is significant.

Maria Emmerich (59:28.406)
It is so I would say I address that. And then, you know, depending on their abilities, whether it be stretching, yoga, like finding something that they do like, but I do want them to find some sort of strength training. And like I did I I said this on YouTube on we did a live the other day. I said five minutes is better than nothing. Ten minutes is better than five. And that's how I look at it with my life, because sometimes like Everybody says, I'm too busy to cook. I'm too busy to work out. I'm like, you're not busier than I am. Like, stop. You know, like we homeschool children. I'm working with celebrities. I wrote four books in a year. Like, you're not busier than I am. Like just get over it.

Dr. Steven Noseworthy (01:00:09.59)
Yeah, that's that that's a lie that you tell yourself.

Maria Emmerich (01:00:12.79)
Yeah, but it's easy to not put pick the weights up when I'm really busy. I got five minutes. Who doesn't have five minutes? You know, just feel the burn. Do some bicep curls. Feel the burn. And I don't have fancy equipment here. It's a very small place. but I have a few things and an ab roller, like it just, you know, and I I used to hate working out. I hated it. And now when I don't do it, it feels like something's because I do it in the morning.

Dr. Steven Noseworthy (01:00:34.349)
Yeah.

Maria Emmerich (01:00:42.456)
That feels like something's off in the day.

Dr. Steven Noseworthy (01:00:45.128)
You know, to to anybody out there listening who thinks that, you know, stopping and doing something for five or ten minutes is pointless because it's only five or ten minutes. earlier this year I did an interview. we did a a two-part series because we ended up talking for like three hours. His name's Marty Gabali. He's a PhD researcher up at McMaster, and he's he's one of the key researchers in the world in in high intensity interval training. And I believe he coined the phrase exercise snacking. I might be wrong on that. But I if he didn't coin it, it was one of his very close colleagues. And and that's a you know, to me, that's a I love that mental imagery. Like if you can't take thirty, forty, fifty-five minutes, whatever, if you have ten, do something in that ten minutes. It will make a difference.

Maria Emmerich (01:01:31.694)
And it's more powerful to do a few different births throughout the day rather than one hour all at once. So if it's exhausting and like an hour, I don't have an hour, just do like 10 minutes and then later do another 10 minutes. And having your heart rate go up and down like that is in the long term much better for you.

Dr. Steven Noseworthy (01:01:51.202)
Yeah. Yeah. That's one of the things I again. I, you know, just talking about the podcast. I've been talking lately about developing VO2 Max and and, you know, zone two, zone five training and and the impact on longevity. It's not just longevity. It's like you said earlier, I can't remember how you said it, but the the way I say it, I quote there's a people listening to the podcast are gonna get tired of me saying this. But Ashley Montague is a British American philosopher. He's not alive anymore, but He's the guy who said the goal of life is to die young as old as possible. Right. And and what you said earlier, if I remember correctly, is like it's not I just I don't want just to be old. I I want to be old and capable. Right. I still want to run on the beach and bow hunt and you know, whatever it is, the stuff. I mean, that's that's really it's another way to say it is adding life to your years and not just years to your life.

Maria Emmerich (01:02:42.604)
I'm more active now than I was as a teenager or in my twenties. Yeah. And I just I don't know. I I doesn't feel like I I make myself do that. I just crave it. Like if I have a bad day, we all have bad days. We all have sadness. And instead of reaching towards the box of cinnamon rolls like I once did, which never made me feel better, I found things that truly made me feel better.

Dr. Steven Noseworthy (01:02:48.142)
That's amazing.
Yeah. And it, you know, one of the big differences that it makes you feel better for longer. Yeah. You know, and and once you get over, you know, they say embrace the suck. Once you get over that initial, this is hard. I don't really like it. The sense of well-being that carries over and and particularly, and I don't want to lose sight of the fact that we're talking about diet and how important that is. But you know, when you run those two paradigms parallel and you're optimizing and let's say even three, you're optimizing. Your sleep, you're optimizing your exercise and activity level, and you're optimizing your diet. My gosh, how powerful is that?

Maria Emmerich (01:03:44.814)
Super powerful. Like exercise is and was my antidepressant. I don't want to take them. And sure, food changed that for me, but exercise still just like super dopamine surge for me. Like I just love it, you know.

Dr. Steven Noseworthy (01:04:00.556)
Yeah, it's the it's the the one that consistently shows in the literature to be effective in treating depression, right? Get up and move your body.

Maria Emmerich (01:04:07.71)
I do feel like even having a mirror, if you have a if you want to start lifting weights, having a mirror and seeing yourself get stronger, don't think of it as vain because there really is a signal going on in your brain that gives you that high. So it's not that, you know, you are want to stare at yourself, but just seeing yourself get stronger is much more powerful than just doing it in in the kitchen and not seeing yourself. So just I don't know, put

Dr. Steven Noseworthy (01:04:32.474)
There. Yeah. I'm I'm watching our time here and I I want to be respectful of yours. I appreciate the time you've been able to give me so far. what what's the craziest transformation story that you have in all the work that you've done?

Maria Emmerich (01:04:46.346)
I have a couple. The one one of my favorite body transformations, her name is Twyla. she I have a certified keto coaching program and she's now one of my coaches. but Twila, she lost 274 pounds. wow. Yeah. And she was at the point of

Dr. Steven Noseworthy (01:05:08.13)
And what do you know what percentage of that was lean mass versus body fat or

Maria Emmerich (01:05:12.908)
I don't, I I don't, but I do know that you know she's moving her body like she never could before. She couldn't even go to the grocery store because if she didn't needed to go to the bathroom, she couldn't fit in a stall. You know, like things like that that you don't even think about. And you know, she couldn't clean herself or anything, and now she you she's just fit as a whistle or whatever you want to say. And You know, I'm gonna probably have to have another interview, but she was on the cover of Women's World magazine. And it was just interesting. She did protein sparing days. She knows that when her weight creeps up, she has to cut out the dairy because it will come back in, but then she just cuts it out, and they're you know, because this is the thing, like some people hate the scale, but if you don't weigh, and I'm not saying that it says everything about your body composition. All of a sudden 50 pounds go by and it's a lot harder to lose 50 than it is to lose five. You know, so just kind of keeping that. So she keeps an eye on the scale. And if it does go up, she cuts out dairy for you know a week or whatever and gets back down to her happy weight. And she's just a blessing. she has a lot of ex excess skin, but she does not wanna get rid of it because there's a lot of side effects and things like that. She's like, These are my war wounds. She's like a she's just an awesome person. what

Dr. Steven Noseworthy (01:06:37.602)
What was the time frame that she lost the two seventy four?

Maria Emmerich (01:06:42.688)
I can't remember at the moment now.

Dr. Steven Noseworthy (01:06:46.05)
I mean we're not talking like three, four months, right? We're talking a year, year and a half.

Maria Emmerich (01:06:50.2)
Year and a half. Yeah. It was over a year. I know that. but I did have someone lose 170 pounds that I'm gonna post on my Instagram in one year, a woman. And you know, it's just people don't think that it's possible, like, you only should lose, you know, so many pounds. But when you're I don't know, when you're so sick, reversing it is important. And you're, you know, you're eating good food. And but my favorite non-weight one is her name's Kiki. And I I used to go to the gym to lift weights. I would do body pump. I don't know if you know that class. And there was a woman in my class, I didn't know who she was, but she always wore a bandana and she didn't have any eyebrows. And she came up to me, she said, Marie, I want to hire you. I have alopecia and I heard you could help. I heard you had some testimony. So she was a professor. She came to my office and it was like September. And so she didn't come to Body Pump anymore because I would go during the day. and you know, she kept in contact for a while, but then she just went away. in May, she comes to body pump class and she's wearing her bandana. and she starts crying, walking up to me, and she takes her bandana off and she said, Maria, I had my first haircut in 10 years.

Dr. Steven Noseworthy (01:08:07.731)
wow.

Maria Emmerich (01:08:10.104)
You know, so it's just like food is powerful. I didn't give her any supplements. Biotin is not going to help your hair.

Dr. Steven Noseworthy (01:08:16.662)
No, no. Yeah. And you know, I I have on a fairly frequent basis ladies asking me, you know, what can you do for hair loss? And and my answer to them always is if I could figure that out and bottle it, I'd be a very rich person. You know. Different different things for different people.

Maria Emmerich (01:08:33.463)
Right. Protein. Protein.

Dr. Steven Noseworthy (01:08:35.264)
Protein, protein. So what is and and maybe we can end on this and we can talk about some of the like your online community and some of the events that that you've got coming up, but what are let's do two things. Who shouldn't do a protein sparing approach? And the answer might be it's for everyone, as long as it's constructed well. And what are the most common mistakes people make? So let's start with is this for everyone, or are there certain people who should be Cautious or shouldn't do it.

Maria Emmerich (01:09:07.102)
No, it's not for everybody if you are, you know, lean already. Cause some people I I was at a conference, they're like, Maria, I tried protein sparing and I was miserable and I felt awful. I was like, You are so lean. Why would you even try that? You know? And they were exercising. I was like, don't, don't, you know, you could still exercise if you have a lot of body fat, but she didn't have a lot of reserves. so if you're already lean, pregnant, I wouldn't recommend it, you know, children. Yeah. You know. You're growing. Sensible stuff, right? The biggest mistakes on the ketogenic diet.

Dr. Steven Noseworthy (01:09:37.271)
Just the sensible stuff, right?
No on protein sparing.

Maria Emmerich (01:09:45.845)
and protein sparing would be dairy, even like lean dairy, low fat dairy, and doing it too often, too much, they're gonna have some metabolic adaptation, like you know, if you do it every single day. alcohol, not sleeping, like you know, the typical things.

Dr. Steven Noseworthy (01:10:07.894)
Again, sensible stuff.

Maria Emmerich (01:10:10.156)
Right, right. But you know, like there's if you're stuck and that's not working, you know, looking getting your hormones tested and different things like that, because you might be extra, you know, might not have any estrogen, no progesterone, no testosterone, and you're miserable, like it's not food is gonna help some, but it's not gonna fix those hormones. So like there's a lot of reasons people don't feel well and but food is one of those easier answers to change. And most people say Eating this way. I'm just gonna say that. Don't say that it's too too expensive either. Because you're not snacking, you're not eating you know the the junk. Yeah.

Dr. Steven Noseworthy (01:10:48.586)
Half the half the week your calories are are maybe half of what you would normally consume. Yeah. Awesome. All right. So I know that you like you've got multiple websites. I'll I'll put websites to your mind body health, your keto adapted. I know that you've got some coaching certification programs. is that for lay people? Is it for people who already have some kind of either like a health coach conc certification or healthcare practitioner credentials. Like where who should be or could be interested in your coaching certifications?

Maria Emmerich (01:11:24.142)
we'll say people around the world are doing the certification. it could anything from a nurse is doing it, a functional doctor. I had someone who was a functional doctor, but they're like, I still need to know more about cholesterol and why I shouldn't, you know, the statins and like they still needed to know more. And that's what we're about is just my husband and I, we teach you everything, we have meetings, so they can feel confident about not harming their patients. you know, about cholesterol or what markers to look at. What supplements should you not take with blood pressure meds? Cause I, you know, I am I certify people in supplements if they want to add that on. But there's a lot of con you know, don't take potassium with blood pressure meds or like, you know, when to take magnesium if you're blood pressure meds, different things like that. and then yeah, there's some people that just like Twila, she had success, she wanna do it. but then there's some people just that are But great cheerleaders, because that's what people need is a great cheerleader. They want to talk to somebody. They need someone that is gonna motivate them to get off their butt in whatever way that works for them. Yeah. so it it's anybody.

Dr. Steven Noseworthy (01:12:37.368)
Good. And I know you have a keto retreat coming up. What's that about?

Maria Emmerich (01:12:41.89)
Yeah. somebody asked me, like, hey Maria, we should go to Italy and like do a keto, like, you know, explore Rome and everything and do it keto. And I like, What? I've never I I don't have a passport, you know. I I never thought I didn't think I could afford to travel, right? And so I did have a passport, I'm just kidding. but we do these retreats. So whether you're keto or carnivore, whatever your dietary needs are. they'll be met. But again, I'm not a judgy person. So if somebody wants gelato, I don't care. Just don't peer pressure me into it. But you know, we we're going to I'm going to Thailand in March, Portugal in May, and Italy in September. So

Dr. Steven Noseworthy (01:13:13.452)
Yeah.
And these are all retreats or are some of these events that you're speaking at?

Maria Emmerich (01:13:28.278)
no, these are you get to travel with me. I teach you anything you want to know. I'll ask it's like having a personal consult for eight days, right? we go to dinner together, breakfast, we go see the you know, Coliseum together. We have all of these we went surfing. Like I was in Bali this last year. We went surfing, or actually I was the only one who surfed. Everybody just watched me and laughed. We went we rode on elephants, you know, like we just have fun. It's just a fun vacation. And what I love is I go alone and I want people to be like, if you don't have a friend to go with, don't worry, because I don't have anybody either. Like,

Dr. Steven Noseworthy (01:14:07.416)
You know, I I think that's such a such a great idea for so many different reasons. But one is like my wife and I, this year, we've been on three vacations, two cruises, including two cruises, and these are first cruises that we've ever been on. And so you take people and then you take them out of their environment. You're traveling. And most people will assume like you can't follow a diet when you're traveling. Yeah. Like yeah, you can. If you know what your choices, what your options are, and if you're dedicated to the outcome that you're pursuing. Yeah. So I I love it because you're you're showing them like this is how you do it.

Maria Emmerich (01:14:45.676)
And I usually like miss my family when I travel for events that I speak at. I don't miss them because I'm just seriously, like think about who's coming on the trips. They're like fun people. They're not, you know, I just have so much I never laugh so much in my life. So yeah. Don't go with your family. Come with us. It's super fun.

Dr. Steven Noseworthy (01:14:59.212)
That's great.
All right. Any final words of advice before I let you go?

Maria Emmerich (01:15:07.158)
No, but I do think that you should have my husband on and talk all more about the science. He'll take it to another level for you.

Dr. Steven Noseworthy (01:15:13.452)
Yeah, I'd I'd be interested in that for sure.

Maria Emmerich (01:15:15.522)
He is a scientist, so yeah.

Dr. Steven Noseworthy (01:15:17.624)
Got awesome. Well, Maria Emmerich, thank you very much. I appreciate your time and shout out to all of your listeners.

Maria Emmerich (01:15:24.664)
Thank you so much.

Dr. Steven Noseworthy (01:15:26.604)
All right. Take care.

• 00:02 — Welcome & disclaimer
• 00:24 — Two podcasts, one goal: something for both the general public and functional medicine clinicians
• 01:53 — Maria's origin story: diagnosed with PCOS at 16
• 04:02 — Researching the root cause and creating protein-packed recipes
• 05:43 — Why people resist you when you get healthier
• 06:40 — From adoption struggles to becoming a nutritionist
• 09:23 — Dr. Valter Longo's fasting mimicking diet, explained
• 10:26 — How Maria's "pure protein days" became known as "protein sparing"
• 12:18 — Why most fasting/longevity research is animal studies, not human trials
• 16:17 — Keto, carnivore & protein sparing: a spectrum, not a competition
• 19:48 — Kale vs. steak: nutrient density and plant protein myths
• 20:55 — Why Dr. Noseworthy won't coach vegans who won't consider animal protein
• 23:25 — What is the Protein Sparing Modified Fast?
• 24:12 — The leucine trigger and muscle protein synthesis
• 27:44 — The real goal: losing fat without losing muscle
• 29:05 — GLP-1 drugs (Ozempic) vs. protein sparing: muscle loss compared
• 32:01 — The protocol: calories, macros & the 3-day rule
• 33:59 — Whey protein, insulin & absorption speed
• 37:26 — Cycling protein between keto days and protein sparing days
• 39:00 — What an "overfeeding day" actually looks like
• 40:42 — Why dietary fat gets cut on protein sparing days
• 42:19 — Good fats vs. seed oils
• 46:21 — Dosing protein by lean mass, not total body weight
• 47:43 — Modifying protein for cancer, Hashimoto's & osteoporosis
• 50:56 — Diet and lifestyle beat supplements
• 53:47 — Remission vs. cure
• 56:21 — Exercise philosophy: make it fun, not forced
• 58:09 — Why sleep comes before exercise
• 1:00:09 — "You're not busier than me": five minutes beats zero
• 1:01:31 — Exercise snacking, VO2 max & longevity
• 1:04:32 — Client transformation stories: a 274-lb loss and reversed osteoporosis
• 1:08:53 — Who shouldn't do protein sparing, and the most common mistakes
• 1:10:48 — Maria's coaching certification program
• 1:12:37 — Keto & carnivore travel retreats (Thailand, Portugal, Italy)
• 1:15:02 — Closing thoughts